Occupy Things

[pie]

So this has been touched upon a little, but I'm wondering what you guys think of the whole Occupy movement, how it's being done, what it represents, etc.?

[eitlobsaboo]

There will always be the rich and the poor. Trying to equalize that is futile.
While it seems unfair that the 1% earn gazillions, good on them. They got themselves into that position. Us protesting against it is silly. While it may have brought the subject to public attention, I can't see it achieving much.
Say we do equalize everything. Then what. Inflation would be ridiculous..

[Kelso]

I think it has less to do with equalizing the gap between rich and poor (although that is a major problem), and more to do with the current division of political power and government favour. In a democracy, presumable the political power and government interest should be for the majority. But rather than the 99% having the control, it is instead the wealthy 1% that have the greatest influence in politics, which only benefits themselves and corporate interests. I'm pulling misremembered numbers out of my ass here, but it's something like how only 1% of Americans are millionaires, but like 80% of congress are millionaires.
All that said, I haven't really been following Occupy ____ at all. I expect it's quite likely that a lot of the protesters will just be complaining from the stand point that the rich need to be taken down to their level or something, but the bit I recall hearing around the start of the movement was closer to my above explanation.
Heck, there's an Occupy movement in the city my University is in right now, but most people aren't really sure what it's even about. They've just sort of camped out in a public space downtown with signs, but aren't really in the way or bothering anyone. For a protest to make much difference it needs to inconvenience people so they pay attention, but without a concrete unified message, it wouldn't do much good anyway.

And you can't really directly call for wealth equalization in the US. That's SOCIALISM, and pretty much a political slur regardless of your party affiliation. Unless you're for the Socialist Party of course.

[kleptoman]

I think the movement suffers from having no discernable goals. Honestly though at the moment I feel fairly disheartened and feel like protesting does nothing in my country. While what has happened in the middle east shows that people with much worse problems and more totalitarian governments can still get change, it still feels this way.

[Knight]

babby's first marxists

[MrSquishyDBC]

I agree with Klepto; the whole movement is just a show of dissatisfaction (not that they shouldn't share the fact that they are not satisfied with the status quo).

There's an Occupy group at my school, and they just kinda stand around and protest various things and hand out fliers... Most people I know who have gone to an Occupy rally simply went to say they've been to a rally.

[pie]

Yeah, I've been following it fairly closely, and I'm divided on the whole issue. The fundamentals are valid; people are right to be angry at growing wealth disparity, the lack of culpability for the financial situation, corporate influence on politics, etc. It's true there's not been a cohesive goal from the start, rather, the movement seems to me a sort of general exhibition of the frustration and despair that accompany the current social climate in North America and elsewhere.

I've heard arguments from both proponents and opponents of the movement, and to be honest there are very few that don't piss me off immensely. Those belittling the movement as the whining of bored, middle-to-upper class youths that just want something to protest, dismissing its significance through superficial, petty name-calling are moronic and detrimental. Similarly, so are the radical pseudo-anarchists who seem to be among the most vocal of protesters. The ones worth listening to are the moderates who can look at the movement without significant bias or vitriol, and are able to form calm and coherent analyses of the situation.

In my opinion, the Occupy movement is not something that is going to elicit significant change, but it's certainly a warning of the way things are going. People are fed up with the way things are, and regardless of your opinion of the movement, your cynicism towards what it represents (you guys can probably imagine I have one of the more cynical views of the movement), it's certainly gained significant support and is causing a large stir in the public consciousness.

The raids on Zuccoti Park, in Oakland, Melbourne and other places, were mistakes. This movement will thrive on any fuel that the government gives it, and it has done so. The timings of those raids were perfect for the protesters: as public interest was dying down and opinion began to turn against the movement, this has given them fresh incentive and a chance to gain sympathy. Right now, a huge crowd is marching in NY. They're planning to evict the movement here in Vancouver, too, and I'm interested to see how that goes down. I've pretty much lost any faith in the way it's being run here, but I'm certainly interested in how the whole thing turns out. No doubt in decades to come, this movement will be referenced in relation to changes in government that I am sure will come.

That said, I can't really be bothered with the whole thing, for the most part. Observer only.

[kleptoman]

I think that if it is remembered at all, it will be remembered as the demonstration that the arab spring failed to translate to the west.

[kleptoman]

Interesting development

[Agrajag]

Man I am prertty pro-OWS and some of these comments are making me a little upset.

From what I can see, the overall message/complaint most people have is the rich/big businesses using their wealth to get the government to change/ignore laws so that they can get even more money. People don't want things "equalized" in the sense of taking money away from the rich and giving it to the poor, they want less corruption.

Also the government/police response to these protests is completely unacceptable. Especially in places like Oakland, UC Berkeley, and UC Davis, and Zuccotti Park. The police and officials who approved of severely beating and pepper spraying nonviolent protesters should be serving jail time.

[CoyoteKnight]

Man I am prertty pro-OWS and some of these comments are making me a little upset.

From what I can see, the overall message/complaint most people have is the rich/big businesses using their wealth to get the government to change/ignore laws so that they can get even more money. People don't want things "equalized" in the sense of taking money away from the rich and giving it to the poor, they want less corruption.

Also the government/police response to these protests is completely unacceptable. Especially in places like Oakland, UC Berkeley, and UC Davis, and Zuccotti Park. The police and officials who approved of severely beating and pepper spraying nonviolent protesters should be serving jail time.

I agree with you for the most part, but it's unlikely that OWS can pull this off. Unlike the Tea party, they're not trying to weasel their way into politics, and the media (a large portion of which is owned by large corporations) has condemned the Occupy movement, but portrayed the Tea party as a bunch of darling, folksy angels.

[kleptoman]

Really? Interesting. You might find it interesting that over here no one knows that much about the tea party, those who do don't really think much of them. And I think most people are not that interested in the occupy movement.

Also this.

[Ben]

but portrayed the Tea party as a bunch of darling, folksy angels.

Everything I've seen about the Tea Party has painted them as borderline psychotics.

[MrSquishyDBC]

Overseas, sure, that would make sense. And certain channels/reporters (*coughcoughTheDailyShow*) always show the Tea Party in their true colors. But channels like Fox News always spin it to make the tea party look like a heroic grassroots movement to restore America to a simpler time.

[CoyoteKnight]

Overseas, sure, that would make sense. And certain channels/reporters (*coughcoughTheDailyShow*) always show the Tea Party in their true colors. But channels like Fox News always spin it to make the tea party look like a heroic grassroots movement to restore America to a simpler time.

YEah, this is pretty much a more eloquent version of what I was going to say vis-a-vis Fox News. I still can't believe that so many believe and trust these kooks.