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Re: Game Literature

Postby Matador » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:55 pm

I'm familiar with Adventure maps (though I've never played one). I've watched plenty of lets plays, including Yogs cast. I've also considered making one myself, though I need to get good with redstone, and I'm waiting for pistons to come out for some of my ideas. Not committing to anything, though.

Minecraft is in the same genre as the sims and spore, in my opinion. It's awesome, and I agree with Jason Rohrer in that it's one of the most spiritual experiances I've ever had...

But I don't feel that it's a game. Maybe I'll feel different when Minecraft is released and we get adventure mode.
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Re: Game Literature

Postby kleptoman » Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:41 am

Matador wrote:I'd like to introduce her to portal. I think that''s the best bridge for us to cross together.

This would be great. Hard, but great. Definately this. Once she hits the first ratman's nook, she should be hooked enough to puzzle it through.
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Re: Game Literature

Postby Desov2 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:44 am

Matador wrote:
As for Minecraft, I wouldn;t mind doing a few posts on it, but I'm of the opinion that it isn't truly a game. At least, Minecraft isn't a game by the technical definitions. It's definitely interactive entertainment, and it's definitely a video game (I do feel that not all Video Games are Games), but Minecraft is less a game and more a toy or a simulation with aspects of a game. Now, this opinion is based on beta, which is unbalanced and mostly elder game, but Minecraft is still a fantastic experience.


Gonna be all academic and pull out a quote for this...

"When you strip away all the genre differences, and the technological complexities, all games share four defining traits : a goal, rules, a feedback system, and voluntary participation.
- Jane McGonigal ( her book Reality is Broken)

Well, by this definition, Minecraft does have some work to do. It doesn't have a game imposed goal or ending, rather goals are imposed upon players by themselves in the form of exploration. It does have rules that you do have to follow, but they are very free-form.
Probably the thing that Minecraft lacks the most is a feedback system to go by. Right now, the score thing when you die doesn't work, so that can't be it. The only thing that could be a feedback system is just the self-gratification of a player creating something interesting; however, this isn't imposed by Minecraft.
And yeah, of course you are free to play Minecraft as you please. (Unless your addicted).

So yeah, as of right now, I am going to agree with Mat and say that it isn't technically a game YET.

With the addition of achievements, and Notch's apparently eventual goal of making an ending (this would add a goal for the player and then progress towards that goal would be the feedback system), I can see this turning into a true game, as defined by McGonigal

As of right now though, it is a very very very entertaining virtual sandbox. :durr:

On a related note, if you haven't read read that book that I quoted already, you really should. Its right up your alley Mat, as it validates our existence as game Designers.
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Re: Game Literature

Postby Matador » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:01 pm

I know about Jane McGonigal, and I really respect her (watched her ted talk last year, and met her briefly before the social games rant), but the definition you gave me also works well for puzzles. Puzzles have an end goal (the solution), rules (so you don't force pieces together that don't function) Feedback (I'm so close to figuring this out: oh wait, no I did this wrong; AHA Got it!), and are of course voluntary (I'm not motivated enough to finish this puzzle).

Examples of Video Games that are puzzles: The entire adventure genre. So the definition Jane gave is incomplete. A more complete definition would involve the word play (which is a verb that is also difficult to define). But Play is also difficult to ascribe to just games, as you don't need a game to play. We have toys.

Minecraft does have a short game--which I would refer to as a pregame-- where you have nothing, it's mid morning, and starts with you punching a tree... Once you get enough material for your first shelter, you're done, and it's time to make your own fun.

You know what else you can make your own fun with? Toys.

I'm not trying to be dismissive, or say that Minecraft will never be a game... but It's hard for me to treat it as such. That said, I'm still addicted and will continue designing and redesigning my houses, big and small, until I am satisfied that I am safe. And then a creeper will blow it up.
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Re: Game Literature

Postby Matador » Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:46 pm

Holy shit, I got 50 page views today! What the fuck happened?! Did someone comb my archives?
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Re: Game Literature

Postby Leetmuffin » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:04 pm

Matador wrote:Holy shit, I got 50 page views today! What the fuck happened?! Did someone comb my archives?


I read through a couple of them. Not fifty though.
Tell me a story baby.
I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind. Some come from ahead and some come from behind. But I've bought a big bat. I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!
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Re: Game Literature

Postby Matador » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:54 pm

I got 38 page views around 10 this morning. Wierd. I think they came from Brainy Gamer.

Guess linking your site to your profile works.

I should really stop looking at stats and write more content, but still... it's kind of cool to see people looking at your stuff.
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Re: Game Literature

Postby Matador » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:02 am

Resistance

I'm going back for more.
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Re: Game Literature

Postby Matador » Mon May 09, 2011 12:11 pm

Actions Speak Louder with Words. Hopefully the beginning of a series of posts on Devil Survivor.

I also cleaned the site up a bit, in my opinion. Let me know what you think. I can always change it back or modify it.
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Re: Game Literature

Postby Ben » Mon May 09, 2011 4:10 pm

havent read yet but shit, digging the fuck out of the new look.
The racist one.
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Re: Game Literature

Postby Matador » Mon May 09, 2011 4:58 pm

Heh. Thanks. I've been messing around with the warp tool in Photoshop for a while now, and I've found some techniques that create pretty cool and adaptable patterns. I just create a bunch of paralel lines (copy, paste and merging layers along the way so they're uniform), select them, add in a gradient (so you can see where they overlap, rather than having a boring mesh), and put it into overlay over a background color with a slight gradient. Add text, crop and round the corners and you're done. The mesh look is great for background elements, so if you have a landscape, portrait or some such you aren't left with empty space. I just matched the background color of the website to one end of the mesh as best as possible and Taa-Daa!

Eh... I'll just post a bunch of examples of the pointless shit I make in PS after dinner. :P

Also, since I found that free MP3 hosting site when I was looking for other written content on Devil Survivor, I might mess around with some audio content of my own. Maybe do a Podcast, or repost audio clips I think are crucial to the conversation.
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Re: Game Literature

Postby pie » Wed May 11, 2011 8:15 pm

Looks awesome. Not crazy about the background colour, I think it could work with a contrasting colour to the shades of green.
eitlobsaboo wrote:Oh... dude... dude.. that's.. oh.... that's not something I wanted to see right before bed.. that's fucked up..
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Re: Game Literature

Postby stock » Wed May 11, 2011 8:41 pm

Oh no! Now the title isn't nearly as interesting! Game Literature? ...wooo

It's simple as that, it's simple as that, it's simple as that for your stupid ass.
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Re: Game Literature

Postby Matador » Wed May 11, 2011 9:37 pm

Should I go back to "Games as Literature" then?
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Re: Game Literature

Postby Ben » Wed May 11, 2011 10:00 pm

I think games as literature sells what you're about far better.
The racist one.
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